Episode 2: Ken Cloke – The Master Speaks

Ken Cloke is a mediator, author, and professor, and has worked in conflict resolution for 37 years. In this interview with Julia Menard and Gordon White, Ken Cloke discusses:

• the three elements of political conflicts
• how we can shift from ‘us versus them’ thinking patterns
• practical ways to bring divided people to the table for meaningful dialogue
• our relationship to the universe

To hear Julia and Gordon’s Riffcast about this interview, click here.

 

Resources

Ken Cloke’s website and social media:

• www.KenCloke.com
• Twitter: @KenCloke

Latest books by Ken Cloke:

• Politics, Dialogue and the Evolution of Democracy

• Conflict Revolution: Designing Preventative Solutions for Chronic Social, Economic and Political Conflicts

Resources referred to in the episode:

• Steven Pinker ‘s book: The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined, 2011

• David Bohm’s book: On Dialogue

Ken Cloke – Quotes From The Podcast

“Peacemaking, it turns out, is a much larger, broader, richer and more complex field than I [thought] at that time [I was engaged in various political movements during the 1960s]. But what is striking to me today is that there is, in fact, a way of reaching people’s hearts and minds. That’s just stunning.” (2:13)

“…thinking about this is what keeps me up at night…” (5:48)

“Power is a narcotic and a zero-sum game, and all power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, as Lord Acton said.” (7:50)

“…if we look at the planet as a whole, there is no ‘them,’ there’s just us.” (10:56)

“One of the things that wakes us up is catastrophe. […] People have gathered together every time there was a disaster and supported one another. What allows them to do that in the face of a natural disaster, but not in the face of a human disaster like war?” (14:46)

“Meditation reduces the sense of [a fixed, isolated] self, and therefore is responsible for an increased sense of compassion.” (16:06)

“…[B]y forming connections with each other, by reaching across racial and gender lines, by creating a united country, a united world even, we stand a much better chance of solving our problems.” (35:29)

“There’s something that for shorthand I call ‘Ken’s law,’ [which is that] the people who need to be at the meeting most aren’t there.” (37:25)

“… a physicist whose name is David Bohm. […] later in his life, began working in dialogue, and wrote a book called “On Dialogue” [in which] he defines dialogue as ‘the flow of meaning between us.’” (37:59)

“Here are two questions you can ask each person to answer that will initiate dialogue: ….” (39:48)

[A question that can be useful to ask people in conflict is:] “What life experiences have you had that have led you to feel so deeply and passionately about this issue?” (47:44)

“Don’t give up. Don’t give up on others, [or on yourself] but [continue to] reach out.” (47:59)

“I think at a deep level, there is no difference between us and the universe.” (49:20)

“…[W]e actually search for, subconsciously, the one who will teach us what we most need to know. “ (49:34)

“[E]very conflict creates a kind of blind spot inside of us, and we literally can’t see [what is behind it], but there is a desire to see, and therefore a search for what would enable us to see more clearly.” (50:04)

“We find people who are not good for us, in order to be able to figure out how to become stronger so that we [won’t be] so vulnerable to their behaviour.” (50:22)